and so that bad as the taliban y be, they're less corrupt. and you will get a more or less honest judgment out of them which will then be enforced with barbaric severity. that's not the ideal that people want, but it may be better than the alternative. so i think the challenge that we face in countries such as mali or afghanistan or elsewhere is to try to build up nonfundamentallist institutions of governance and rule of law that will, in fact, deliver a modicum of justice which is what the people want but not to do it with the kind of bar bieric -- barbaric severity. if we can do that, i think we will be successful. >> okay. the gentleman down there. >> thank you. my name is -- [inaudible] voice of america, russian service. what about the syria? we see the scorched earth policy and little success from -- [inaudible] what for the future? >> well, it's interesting what's happened because as the power of the media has grown, scorched earth strategies are becoming less successful. these days they can only work in places where nobody's paying att